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Post by derekt on Jun 28, 2023 15:34:49 GMT
Derek Truby Russian tennis players are trained by Russia, paid by Russia, represent Russia and will probably go back to Russia when Wimbledon is over. The only way Putin is going to stop this war and stop killing innocent men, women, children and babies in Ukraine is when his own people tell him enough is enough. If we just allow Russian players to compete as though nothing is going on then the Russian people are just going to think nobody cares and things will go on as they are. If a Russian tennis player has a few thousand supporters in Russia and they are not allowed to play then at least some of those thousand supporters are going to perhaps stop and think 'I don't like this, we need to start kicking up a fuss'. How can they possibly be allowed to compete at Wimbledon  ? Not that it will make a difference but personally I will NEVER support Wimbledon again
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 28, 2023 15:43:25 GMT
Can’t punish professional sportspeople for the actions of their government mate.
In your case, they should ban all Israeli sportspeople, British and Americans too for the proxy wars all around the world. I’d agree tbf.
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Post by derekt on Jun 28, 2023 16:45:01 GMT
Disagree with that Frank. You've got to draw the line somewhere. If we follow what you are saying then we shouldn't be placing sanctions on the Oligarchs because it's not them launching the missiles. If we were chucking missiles at France and threatening to nuke them do you think they would invite our football team over for a jolly game of soccer ?
Professional sports people aren't a special case in these circumstances
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 28, 2023 17:07:55 GMT
Disagree with that Frank. You've got to draw the line somewhere. If we follow what you are saying then we shouldn't be placing sanctions on the Oligarchs because it's not them launching the missiles. If we were chucking missiles at France and threatening to nuke them do you think they would invite our football team over for a jolly game of soccer ? Professional sports people aren't a special case in these circumstances Pretty sure us and the US played in the 2002 World Cup months after launching an illegal invasion of Iraq. Israel still able to compete in competition despite mass genocide. |
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Post by derekt on Jun 28, 2023 17:51:14 GMT
I understand and sympathise with your feelings about the Iraq invasion but two wrongs don't make a right. If a terrorist group was blowing up restaurants, shopping centres, schools and hospitals would it be right for us to invite them over to play tennis in out country ? That's exactly what we are doing in my mind by allowing Russian representatives to play at Wimbledon.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 29, 2023 11:03:18 GMT
It's difficult. I don't really know anything about tennis but it seems like a sport where first and foremost you're representing yourself, although I suppose you are also representing your country and its tennis federation. I don't agree with treating individuals differently just because they're from Russia so probably the fairest solution is to allow them to compete but under an Olympic-style independent athlete flag.
I think it's debatable whether banning Russia from sport prompts Russians to stand up to their government, or feeds into the narrative they get that the West hates them and is trying to isolate them. Think of it the other way round, if a sporting event was going on in Russia and they banned UK competitors, your reaction would probably not be that we should soften our stance against Russia.
It is a fair question where we draw the line though. Personally, I worry about where all this Saudi and Qatari sportswashing is going to lead us. Saudi Arabia is arguably the most wicked country on the planet. We should be as passionate and outspoken about what's going on in Yemen as we are about Ukraine in my opinion.
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Post by derekt on Jun 29, 2023 13:29:14 GMT
I agree it's debatable whether banning them would prompt the ordinary Russian to stand up to their government but every little bit of Putin's seemingly indestructibility within his own country needs chipping away at and if it were to just make 0.1% of their tennis supporters think a little harder then I think that's the route we should be going along.
It's fine the players signing a piece of paper to say they are not representing their country but let's be honest, where do you think the prize money will end up ? If they were to at least publicly state that any prize money they earn would be donated to a Ukraine charity, only then would they truly disassociate themselves from supporting the wanton destruction being carried out in their name.
As for the Saudis and Qataris, yes, what's going on is very wrong and yes, maybe we should be as outspoken about them as we are about Ukraine but it would be sad if that precluded us from speaking out about anything at all we don't think is right. The world has yet to reach the stage when all wrongs can corrected but that doesn't mean to say we don't try and put ANY of them right.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 29, 2023 19:15:55 GMT
I agree it's debatable whether banning them would prompt the ordinary Russian to stand up to their government but every little bit of Putin's seemingly indestructibility within his own country needs chipping away at and if it were to just make 0.1% of their tennis supporters think a little harder then I think that's the route we should be going along. It's fine the players signing a piece of paper to say they are not representing their country but let's be honest, where do you think the prize money will end up ? If they were to at least publicly state that any prize money they earn would be donated to a Ukraine charity, only then would they truly disassociate themselves from supporting the wanton destruction being carried out in their name.As for the Saudis and Qataris, yes, what's going on is very wrong and yes, maybe we should be as outspoken about them as we are about Ukraine but it would be sad if that precluded us from speaking out about anything at all we don't think is right. The world has yet to reach the stage when all wrongs can corrected but that doesn't mean to say we don't try and put ANY of them right. Bear in mind that they have to go back to Russia afterwards and will have family there, and that the Kremlin isn't known for taking kindly to that sort of behaviour. This is a country where a child was reported to the police for drawing an anti-war picture in school, and her father ended up getting two years in prison. Over here our government is terrible but at least we're allowed to say that. Western countries shouldn't demand people from other countries to exercise liberties we have but they don't. |
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Post by derekt on Jun 29, 2023 19:24:15 GMT
Aah, but you strengthen my case there. If we didn't allow them to play at Wimbledon then they wouldn't be risking Putin's wrath
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 3, 2023 11:39:27 GMT
What short memories people have in this country remember Iraq war no calls for the UK to be banned Vietnam no calls for USA to be banned I for one think the Russia should be allowed to play not there fault is it Putin is a tit
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Post by derekt on Jul 9, 2023 17:29:05 GMT
No, I'm sorry, I'm not giving 'some people in this country have a short memory' I don't remember us or America specifically targeting hospitals, shopping centres, railway stations and restaurants with our missiles. I don't remember us taking thousands of children away from their families to re-indoctrinate them. This is a totally different kettle of fish.
If we were to force Russian tennis players to sacrifice one or two years of their 'Russian financed' tennis careers in the hope that it may make one iota of difference to the Russian peoples opinion of Putin then it would be absolutely nothing compared to the sacrifices that Ukrainian people are having to make every day of their lives.
And it's no good saying the tennis players are just ordinary people trying to get on with their lives. It's ordinary Russian people firing the missiles. It's ordinary Russian people committing horrendous acts of torture on Ukrainian Fathers, Mothers and children. Until they stand up to the monster that is Putin then this will go on and on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 18:19:45 GMT
No, I'm sorry, I'm not giving 'some people in this country have a short memory' I don't remember us or America specifically targeting hospitals, shopping centres, railway stations and restaurants with our missiles. I don't remember us taking thousands of children away from their families to re-indoctrinate them. This is a totally different kettle of fish. If we were to force Russian tennis players to sacrifice one or two years of their 'Russian financed' tennis careers in the hope that it may make one iota of difference to the Russian peoples opinion of Putin then it would be absolutely nothing compared to the sacrifices that Ukrainian people are having to make every day of their lives. And it's no good saying the tennis players are just ordinary people trying to get on with their lives. It's ordinary Russian people firing the missiles. It's ordinary Russian people committing horrendous acts of torture on Ukrainian Fathers, Mothers and children. Until they stand up to the monster that is Putin then this will go on and on. Christ alive Dez, give it a rest. I don’t see Medvedev firing missiles, the lad is just playing tennis. |
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Post by Lobster on Jul 9, 2023 19:53:34 GMT
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 9, 2023 20:11:31 GMT
Aye the audacity of some of our bootlickers who “know their place” calling on people in other nations to stand up against their oppressors. Brass neck.
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Post by avfo on Jul 9, 2023 23:19:45 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Jul 10, 2023 5:35:08 GMT
Got to say I find the crowd at Wimbledon insufferable. Booing off a Belarusian player, who as far as I can tell is doing her best to be respectful about the whole situation, is disgraceful. These are generally wealthy, educated people who should know better.
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 10, 2023 7:51:21 GMT
No, I'm sorry, I'm not giving 'some people in this country have a short memory' I don't remember us or America specifically targeting hospitals, shopping centres, railway stations and restaurants with our missiles. I don't remember us taking thousands of children away from their families to re-indoctrinate them. This is a totally different kettle of fish. If we were to force Russian tennis players to sacrifice one or two years of their 'Russian financed' tennis careers in the hope that it may make one iota of difference to the Russian peoples opinion of Putin then it would be absolutely nothing compared to the sacrifices that Ukrainian people are having to make every day of their lives. And it's no good saying the tennis players are just ordinary people trying to get on with their lives. It's ordinary Russian people firing the missiles. It's ordinary Russian people committing horrendous acts of torture on Ukrainian Fathers, Mothers and children. Until they stand up to the monster that is Putin then this will go on and on. no one said anything about the UK being banned from events when we went to war in Iraq also Vietnam was caused by America they were bombed out by American people barely a mention anyway I don't get the obsession with Ukraine anyway they teach there children nazi salutes your turn by the way it was ordinary Americans that bombed Vietnam just to educate you |
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Post by derekt on Jul 14, 2023 6:04:53 GMT
This is the last I'll say on the subject, especially as Wimbledon is now nearly over. None of the arguments put forward change my opinion that the decision was morally wrong and I still think the Wimbledon board should be ashamed of themselves.
Cityboy, I don't need educating thank you, especially by you. If you seriously don't understand our 'obsession' with Ukraine and you seriously believe they teach their children how to take nazi salutes then I would strongly suggest you change your sources of information.
Roll on the new season, hopefully it's going to be one to remember :-)
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 14, 2023 6:16:48 GMT
Look forward to you denouncing sports organisations for allowing Israeli athletes to compete. Or Saudi athletes. Or British and American athletes.
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 14, 2023 6:31:28 GMT
Look forward to you denouncing sports organisations for allowing Israeli athletes to compete. Or Saudi athletes. Or British and American athletes. I'm a live and let live merchant not there fault is it |
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Post by devamug72 on Jul 14, 2023 20:13:59 GMT
No, I'm sorry, I'm not giving 'some people in this country have a short memory' I don't remember us or America specifically targeting hospitals, shopping centres, railway stations and restaurants with our missiles. I don't remember us taking thousands of children away from their families to re-indoctrinate them. This is a totally different kettle of fish. If we were to force Russian tennis players to sacrifice one or two years of their 'Russian financed' tennis careers in the hope that it may make one iota of difference to the Russian peoples opinion of Putin then it would be absolutely nothing compared to the sacrifices that Ukrainian people are having to make every day of their lives. And it's no good saying the tennis players are just ordinary people trying to get on with their lives. It's ordinary Russian people firing the missiles. It's ordinary Russian people committing horrendous acts of torture on Ukrainian Fathers, Mothers and children. Until they stand up to the monster that is Putin then this will go on and on. no one said anything about the UK being banned from events when we went to war in Iraq also Vietnam was caused by America they were bombed out by American people barely a mention anyway I don't get the obsession with Ukraine anyway they teach there children nazi salutes your turn by the way it was ordinary Americans that bombed Vietnam just to educate you The irony of claiming to educate someone by writing a whole paragraph without punctuation 👌 |
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 16, 2023 18:00:08 GMT
One good thing come out of Wimbledon that smug Serbian bellend got beat never be r fed will he a proper gentleman
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